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PostSubject: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyWed Nov 17, 2010 9:19 pm

So, been wanting to know this for a while but, who here is a fan of the series? I know ever since I played the game back when it came out I was a fan of it. Lately though I've become some sort of epic fanboy over it, lulz, but I dun care. Recently though I been replaying the 1st since I never actually beat the game, as I was stuck on Maleficint in her dragon form. But now I beat it and I beat KH2 about 2 months after its release. I've also played CoM but not the other ones.

So who here is a fan to it?
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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyWed Nov 17, 2010 9:41 pm

Playing through Ven's story on Birth By Sleep as we speak ^^

I have 356/2 days but havent beat it because I'm stuck on the last boss forms with no way of levelling up further. But I own each game title so far. I pray that a KH 3 will be put on the PS3 to finish off the series the right way.

*raises hand* KH fan right here!

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyWed Nov 17, 2010 9:58 pm

Nice.

If they do make a KH3, I hope that its not the end of the series. I mean, yes end it on a good game and all but I would think at least another game for the series should come out. Not starring Sora but someone else. Iunno who I just hope they don't end the series with KH3, otherwise the series might feel somewhat incomplete.

Oh yeah, what was your favorite world in the KH series? For me its the Pride Lands in KH2. I loved the LK (Lion King) films so thats why.

And what world IYO do you think they should put/bring back into KH3? For me its obviously the Pride Lands again
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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyWed Nov 17, 2010 11:07 pm

I really enjoyed KH1 and KH2, but i didn't like the fact that you had to get other platforms in order to get more of the story.
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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyThu Nov 18, 2010 8:49 am

The series' biggest problem is easily the lack of accessibility. You have to buy at least three different game systems to get the full experience.

As for each individual game?

Kingdom Hearts - Probably the... third best of the series in terms of gameplay, which is primarily how I grade the series, since the writing is decent at the very best. The mechanics are all pretty good. The platforming segments kind of suck, since the game wasn't really designed as a platformer; the battle system is still great... the only real flaws are the lack of good special moves (only Ars Arcanum is worth using for actual damage output), and Sora's painful inability to defend himself during the rather lengthy Cure/Cura/Curaga animation (both of these problems were fixed in the Japan-only re-release - the former by adding new combo finishers and the like; and the latter by adding an actual ability that makes Sora invincible while healing).

Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - Still the best one of the lot, that I've played. I've heard Birth by Sleep is excellent, but I haven't played it - but more on that later. Anyway, I know most fans don't seem to like the card combat, but I love it. It enforces a clear, numerical system in which you have to think about how you arrange your attacks and abilities, which means that players can't just button mash their way to victory (more on this later, too). The combat strikes a nice balance between the "boy with a key-shaped sword whacking shadow creatures" gameplay of the first game and the "impossibly cool bishie with improbable swordplay skill stylishly dispatching the forces of evil" flavor of the second one. I just overall loved that the game requires both skill and strategy. Contrast with...

Kingdom Hearts 2 - Has not aged well at all. Easily the weakest title in the series. Button-mashing gameplay, little to no exploration, all flash and no substance. Seriously, play through the final boss. Count the amount of times you press "Attack" or use a Reaction Command, and compare with the number of times you block or heal. No challenge or strategy involved at all (except with Sephiroth, and even then, he's cake at higher levels). Made some small improvements to the battle mechanics: gave players outside of Japan access to Leaf Bracer; opened up another slot in the shortcuts menu and allowed items to be installed in it as well as magic; made limits useful (only the Japan-exclusive re-release applies to this last one). It also expanded the synthesis side quests, which was good in theory, but enemies didn't drop ingredients quite enough for my taste (still liked the improved system, though). Not all bad, but deeply flawed.

Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days - Somewhere in between CoM and the first game in terms of the gameplay. The panel system is made of win - makes you install what you need - again, it forces the player to think and employ strategy instead of rely on button-mashing and level grinding (high levels won't help nearly as much as a good deck in this one). And even then, one ends up playing a much more defensive game than in CoM - enemies can deal and receive a lot more punishment than ever before. As for flaws? The hit detection for your weapons sucks, for one thing - you will see Roxas' keyblade clip right through enemies with no effect many times. For another, most enemies are only as tough as they are because, beyond the first or second tier of enemies, they will all have super armor. I would prefer a less ham-fisted way of making enemies tougher. Still, a great game.

Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep - I don't have a PSP. Mad

Kingdom Hearts: Re:coded - Really looking forward to January. This looks like it's going to combine the best of both Days and BbS for its battle system, with the deck arranging of the former and the command menu and battle mechanics of the latter.

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyThu Nov 18, 2010 7:54 pm

@Turtle wrote:
The series' biggest problem is easily the lack of accessibility. You have to buy at least three different game systems to get the full experience.

As for each individual game?



Kingdom Hearts 2 - Has not aged well at all. Easily the weakest title in the series. Button-mashing gameplay, little to no exploration, all flash and no substance. Seriously, play through the final boss. Count the amount of times you press "Attack" or use a Reaction Command, and compare with the number of times you block or heal. No challenge or strategy involved at all (except with Sephiroth, and even then, he's cake at higher levels). Made some small improvements to the battle mechanics: gave players outside of Japan access to Leaf Bracer; opened up another slot in the shortcuts menu and allowed items to be installed in it as well as magic; made limits useful (only the Japan-exclusive re-release applies to this last one). It also expanded the synthesis side quests, which was good in theory, but enemies didn't drop ingredients quite enough for my taste (still liked the improved system, though). Not all bad, but deeply flawed.


Aw....I easily though that KH2 is the best in the series so far. Even though a good portion of it is button-masher, it was still a good game with a nice plot and all.
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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyFri Nov 19, 2010 7:48 am

Don't even get me started on the plot. We'd be here until next spring.

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyFri Nov 19, 2010 8:59 am

lulz.

I'm assuming that you found the plot either really good or really bad
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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyFri Nov 19, 2010 10:48 am

Absolutely horribly written. Of course, I'm almost certain it was intentional on Nomura's part - after all, he screwed so much up with KH2's plot that he had to put out three more games to explain all the plot holes and inconsistencies. Normally that would be a bad thing, but for Nomura, it's very good, because he gets cash money for those three more games. As long as people will buy the games, then he'll be able to make money off them; and as long as he's making money, he's not going to resolve the plot.

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyFri Nov 19, 2010 10:54 am

Great little multireview, Turtle. +1
"Not all bad, but deeply flawed." Just about sums up KH2.
I've only played the main title entries myself, which really left me out of the loop for the second game. It may have been a great way to tie Chain of Memories to the start of KH2, but since I didn't have a GBA at the time, I started out mostly confused. It was just a poor decision to split stuff like that. That, and I don't like card based combat. (Sorry, Turtle.)
The combat in the second one was improved, but still basically button mashing. Reaction commands were a welcome change as they could let you pull off different special attacks, but sometimes it felt like the game relied to heavily on them.
In short, if there is a KH3, then it's definitely not going to be a day one purchase for me. But I do intend to keep an eye on it.

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptySat Nov 20, 2010 3:20 pm

Kingdom Hearts is a series that automatically catches your heart and and brings out your disney childhood memories once more Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyWed Dec 29, 2010 10:45 pm

Picked up BBS for Christmas along with a PSP, however, no memory stick so I've held off getting far to where I'ma get mad when I have to quit and all.

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyMon Jan 03, 2011 7:20 pm

So, just finished Ven's Story on BBS in just 7-9 hours, and boy, was it good! Totally kept me engaged as I kept playing. Love the command deck based combat, and I love the Shotlocks as well.

The main problem, though, is the goddamn analog stick. It is not built for this game. There were moments where I would stop dead in my tracks cause the analog stick isn't as sensitive as the PS2 or 3's analog sticks. Other than that, the game is almost a 10/10 IMO.

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyMon Jan 03, 2011 9:15 pm

I like Ventus. He's not as depressed as Roxas and not as stupid as Sora.

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyMon Jan 03, 2011 10:22 pm

Pfft. Pwnt.
Do you now have a PSP to play this game, Turtle?

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 9:15 am

Got to play BBS recently. I liked it alright for the most part.
The command deck combat with cooldowns was a welcome change. Reminded me a lot of the combat from Crisis Core. As was mentioned before, it was held back a bit by the lousy controls. Never used shotlocks or D-links.
Plotwise, it (surprise, surprise) left me with more questions than answers, secret video included. Just keeps getting more and more needlessly complicated. Regardless, I now want to give both Re: Chain of Memories and Days a try, just to try to tie things together better.

After finishing I was inspired to give the original a run through again, this time on Expert. The old skills (in so much as skill is involved in this game) were still in place. Ran through the game without a hitch, cleared the Arena matches in one go, including the Ice Titan. Old Seph was another matter, but I put him down eventually. Really, he's the only battle that tests your skill any in the entire game, imho. You have to know exactly how high and where to jump, how to properly ration your MP, and react fast when he goes for a Sin Harvest. Tough as he is, I'd say he was tougher in KH2. Looking forward to an Expert mode playthrough of that one too after I get through the other games.

One thing has bothered me for a long while now. Is anyone else put off by the way that Sora, Riku, and Kairi all seem completely indifferent to the implied deaths of their parents/guardians? I mean, even the three other kids, Tidus, Wakka, and Selphie, who are with our main characters every day don't get so much as a mention. I have to think that something's a bit wrong with our guys here.

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 12:14 pm

Well, let's face it: Sora's mom never did much for him except let him know that dinner's ready. Selphie and Wakka are weirdos, and Tidus has an annoying voice. But seriously, yeah. That part always kind of confused me, too.

Also...

@CobaltMonkey wrote:
Sin Harvest
:')

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 2:22 pm

Firstly, thanks for that link. You've delivered me into something akin to a Wikipedia trap. I'll be reading this all day now.
Angry :angry:


Second, the official guide backs me up on this one. That's what he says.
Makes sense too for the type of attack it is. Instant death.
In many religions, when one dies, they "reap what their sins have sown." Thus, something like a reaping could be badly translated (by the Japanese? What a shock!) as a "Sin Harvest."

Question is, what did you think he said? Suspect

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to 'carry a laser down the road that I must travel.'

EDIT:
Well, first I loaded the file to hear it again. I might concede that it's "Sin Harvester" because it does sound a bit too long. And it would be easier to mistranslate from "reaper."
Then I dug some more on that site you listed and it says he's saying "Descend, Heartless Angel". Though they quote no source.
I'm going to go with what I heard simply because it sounds cooler.
And because its apparently what the creators told the people who wrote the guide for it.
But mostly....sounds cooler. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 3:50 pm

Listen to him use the same attack in Kingdom Hearts II. It's "Descend, Heartless Angel."

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 3:54 pm

Not listening! La, la, la!

Also, I really hate you. I have like ten tabs open now on that blasted site. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 4:12 pm

There's even an article on that site about how addictive the site is.

Kingdom Hearts Tab_explosion

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 4:15 pm

Kingdom Hearts 886746

Thinking

Angry :angry:

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyFri Feb 11, 2011 3:56 am

Well, I've put a couple hours into Re: Chain of Memories now.
I do not like it. Combat feels like fighting with your hands tied. To your feet.
Can't open half the doors I see. Can't make my own cards because I can't get the cards that let me make rooms to make cards in. (@.@)
Now, I realize that much of that will change in time, but it's a case of FFXIII here. I don't want another 20hour wait for the game to get good. And besides, some things won't change no matter how long I wait. Such as...
Can't see half the time in battle because of shoddy camera controls and invasive HUD. Getting attacked from across the map with no chance to dodge (thunder magic usually). Can't use attacks half the time because one of the multitude of enemies throws up a higher card at the last second.

Just feels like more trouble than it's worth. Probably better off to watch a compilation of the important scenes on youtube. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyFri Feb 11, 2011 8:23 am

There's certainly a lot more planning involved in CoM than in the other games in the series. You have to know which enemies will play what cards, and how to dodge their attacks even if you can't see them (incidentally, I never really had a problem with the camera Neutral). Actually, now that I think of it, the HUD is fairly minimal. Are you sure we're thinking of the same game?

On a somewhat unrelated note, I rather thought that Final Fantasy XIII got worse in late game rather than better. Perhaps our tastes and philosophies in gameplay are just fundamentally different.

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PostSubject: Re: Kingdom Hearts   Kingdom Hearts EmptyFri Feb 11, 2011 10:18 am

Yup, Re: Chain of Memories for the PS2. I keep thinking, "How could anyone play this on the Gameboy screen?"


I don't think we have too dissimilar tastes since we obviously play the same games. Besides which, I do like a wide variety of gameplay types myself. I'm just as pleased by the strategic approach as I am by kicking in the front door. I think this was just a poor transition from one to the other.

Part of the problem, I think, is that the levels are both familiar and uninspired. I get a double sense of boredom that way. After all, I just played through the first game again. I did all these stories just the other day. There's little new here. I read a plot synopsis and all the plot important details fit in one paragraph.
Regarding the card combat, I'm fine with the idea of it. Heck, I'm a former Magic player. Despite my dislike of math, juggling these kind of numbers isn't hard for me. My problem is that predict all I want, and observe what I will about enemy tendencies to use certain numbers, I'm not being given the tools to properly combat them. Couple that with what I'm used to from a KH game. This brings up a paralell to the FFXIII as well.
The part where your party consists of Hope and Lightning, and Hope's the leader. This was frustrating because I lost some fights I knew I should be able to win, but died due to Hope's low HP. A synergist is not a tank, yet they force both rolls on you. Had I been allowed to use Lightning as party leader, I could have sailed through it. In both instances I'm limited and denied the tools I need to succeed for no good reason. Again, in both games this eventually changes (I assume for CoM), but that doesn't make the ride getting there very fun.


Spoilered for off topic.
Spoiler:
 

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